Ichi The Killer (Spoiler Warning)

[def_tone]

Hey , i have a series of questions concerning this film and if anyone has questions and ideas of their own i whould love to see them posted so i can really get to understand this amazing film. Oh beware Spoilers ahead!

1. The ending: I have read the jerk off fantasy theory wich i agree on, but what happens to ichi? and why does Jijii hang himself if it is him we see hanging from the tree

2.Why is there a shot of Kakihara opening his mouth in a blue room? (I do know that Miike uses alot of "wierd for the sake of wierd" images but i wondered if it has a meaning behind it)

3. Is Karen the same person who speaks chinese and gets her leg and head chopped off after giving Ichi head?

4. Maybe the translation is poor , but what is Longs relationship with Myu-myu? (The prostitute who gets her nipples cut off)

5. Why does Jiro grap his younger brother when he goes close to check his head?

6.What happens to Suzuki and the boss with the hour glass and

7. What is the hourglass for?

These questions are probably a bit laughable but i whould really appreciate your help, one more thing what is the difference between the cut and the uncut version? Thank you



Spoiler warning added by the RBPC

[Rasen]

1&2: your guess is as good as mine
3. Yes
4. He's her pimp
5. I don't remember this, guess I have to watch it again
6. I think they're the only 2 spared as they weren't in the yakuza apartment when Ichi went all slice-happy.
7. Not sure, it might be explained in the manga (I know it explains why he stumbles around) but I only have the first volume.

For the differences in the 2 versions check out the review on [url]http://kfccinema.com[url]

[asagaitomato]

well, i just watched ichi...

what a hilariously gory shape-shifting film....


gimmie a while to think - i think i need to watch the final scenes again.

[sadako]

i think the film was cut so much that the story was not fully depicted
IF ANY ONE HAS AN UNCUT COPY PLEASE TELL US WHAT SCENES YOU THINK WERE CUT PPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSSEEEEE

[Alex Apple]

you'll find the cut version kept the continuity of the film fine.

The edits were mostly where the BBFC (and I'm presuming you're English here, from your other posts) thought the violence towards women was too grotesque. So you miss, for example, the mutilation of a prostitute, and the full gory details of the injuries to the guy in the TV.

Not a huge amount (although about 5 minutes, from what I've heard) and certainly not as much as the Hong Kong version, which, despite about half an hour of cuts, still presents nevertheless a totally coherent movie.

[Rasen]

Actually you miss loads. the cuts add up to (IIRC 13 mins) which is the most that the BBFC have butchered from a movie in a decade! Admittedly it does still run fine and makes just as much sense but a lot of shots were cut. There's actually a full list of scenes that were cut from the HK version at http://kfccinema.com (find the Ichi review) you can see from there what was also removed from the UK version.

[asagaitomato]

i don't remember a nipple cutting scene....


bit I AM going to watch the end again tonight...

dammit....that means i should really watch the whole thing.

*looks at watch*

maybe tomorrow

[Alex Apple]

it's one of the bits the BBFC took out, and it's not in the HK version either.

Hurrah for the Dutch! They let any old nonsense through - and it's only rated a 16!!!!!

[Rasen]

The Dutch version is a close second to my BR SE for my "Best Extras on an Asian Movie" award. If you're gonna buy the movie and wanna see it complete... go Dutch, you'll thank me for it

[Alex Apple]

we've got the Dutch one... I've watched it, but

(wait for it)

only on fast forward!

Why, I'm not quite sure: I think I wanted to try to spot the bits they edited out, and I didn't have time to watch the whole film

Hello, my name's Alex, and I'm a lunatic. I've been a lunatic now for 31 yeeeeeaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrssssssssss....

mmm.... ears.....

[Kitano]

Hello everyone!


Well, this post may be slightly unrelated to the above posts, but these are some of my thoughts on Takashi Miike's Ichi (got the Dutch version too, yay). The following is a transcript from my own post on the Ring Forum:


******************SPOILERS************************ **********








Well, when I looked at the film carefully several times I retained certain things that indicate this; real and unreal are the same in the film.

Every character seems to be living some sort of dream. Everyone seems to be manipulated by Jijii. There's a particular sequence in the film that indicates this, for me.
The ramen restaurant scene:

Cut - Kaneko sitting in front of Ichi
Cut - Ichi looks behind Kaneko and sees Kakihara
Cut - The camera pulls off Kakihara to Kaneko again, and we hear Takeshi speaking to him
Cut - We see Takeshi in front of Kaneko
Cut - Kaneko talks to him and starts eating his ramen
Cut - Shot is Kaneko eating, in front of Ichi, who seems to have heard Kaneko's words to Takeshi (?!)
Cut - Ichi starts eating the ramen

Cut - Jijii running with his plastic mask trough the street (apparently it's night)
Cut - Crow flying off a nest (still seemingly night)

Cut - Ichi sleeping, head layed on Jijii's shoulder in a large room on a big building.
Notice that Jijii is in front of Ichi, sitting in the sofa, but when Ichi runs off the apartment, Jijii appears from the room behind where Ichi was sitting. From a bedroom. Perhaps Jijii woke up at that point and we were watching his dream?


My take for now is that Kakihara killed himself, Ichi stayed on the rooftop getting kicked by Takeshi, adn Jijji apparently hoped that Kakihara would be killed by Ichi. But was dissapointed (he dropped that... bag). It turns out that Jijii was himself dreaming. And commited suicide as soon as he "woke up"...

Or, it can be that the dream was of Kakihara's (or maybe that bathtub scene was in fact a hell, and Kakihara was dead?). Or of Takeshi's...





Anyway, the whole film does have this dream "logic" and feel, if you will. Like as if everything strangely makes sense, but one can't explain quite how...

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Actually you miss loads. the cuts add up to (IIRC 13 mins) which is the most that the BBFC have butchered from a movie in a decade!

We watched the uncut Dutch version (or at least over half of it, or as much as our work-exhausted brains could take, and this time on the proper speed even, chortle) last night and my God, you're right about the butchering bit

Consider that the copy Alex and I were working from, ie the Universe HK version, lost half an hour of material, and that's what I call major-league slicing and dicing of a movie

I was SO mad to see how much of it was lost - how much extra interpretative material was just ripped out of the storyline (because it wasn't just nipple choppings or girlfriend beatings that were cut from the HK version, but all kinds of really insightful stuff that I guess the HK distributors just didn't consider worth keeping in) is just a disgrace.

Now I almost want to rewrite my whole review because I feel that so much of what Miike was trying to put across just escaped me, thanks to the tosspots who chopped great wodges out of the movie... man, it makes the BBFC look almost respectful in their treatment of the material

[Dr.Gonzo]

Mmmm my own copy was purchased in Canada, and it's lenght is approx 120/125', so I think it should be the uncut one, right?
Hey, did anyone heard about Ichi T.K. the anime?!
I saw a DVD in a store some weeks ago that was supposed to be an anime adaptation (I dunno if serie, OAV or movie).

[SHOGUN_YAMATO]

************SPOILER WARNING****************




My theory is this. Ichi and Jijii were the same person. I think that Jijii was seriously mentally ill and had some hipnotic powers. In his sick mind he created Ichi and then use his hypnotic powers to make people believe that is was Ichi who killed them and not Jijii. The evidence of his powers are the "visions" that Karen has when Jijii tells her about the rape. Than again when Ichi is in progerss of cuting her to pices And the reason Jijii hangs himself in the end is that being Ichi he had killed that kid no the roof of Yakuza apartment building. Remember the flashback Jijii had after looking up to the roof, the camera perspective show it in this way as Jijii was being kicked by the kid. There is only one thing that bothers me. What happened to the to the wound on Kakihara's head after the fall ?? Can anybody tell me that ??

spoiler warning added by forum admin.

[Alex Apple]

Originally Posted by Dr.Gonzo

Mmmm my own copy was purchased in Canada, and it's lenght is approx 120/125', so I think it should be the uncut one, right?
Hey, did anyone heard about Ichi T.K. the anime?!
I saw a DVD in a store some weeks ago that was supposed to be an anime adaptation (I dunno if serie, OAV or movie).

The PAL uncut is almost 124 mins long... so the NTSC transfer may be a little longer (bearing in mind PAL speed-up), depending on the source - which part of me suspects is the Dutch DVD, just reencoded for NTSC, in which case it should be exactly the same length.

<phew> If you followed that, you deserve a medal...

As far as the anime version goes, there is one which I don't think is available officially with English subs that does the rounds of the usual grey-market vendors. Takashi Miike did the voicing for Kakihara, if I remember correctly.

And I'm still trying to work my way all the way through the uncut version... guilty confession time I'm not very good with gore and I need to take a break every few minutes!

I dunno, maybe I'm a prude, but there's something about the violence in the movie that bothers me... the extras all say oh yeah, it's great, it's so cartoony, but, without exception, this *is* the most extreme movie I've ever seen.

Don't get me wrong or anything, I think the movie's great... but the wuss in me prefers the bowdlerized HK version better than the Dutch version, and even the HK version makes me feel uneasy. Is that meant to be the point?

[ghevans]

i think you do need to see the uncensored version to really get down to what miike is aiming for with Ichi - the contrasting use of violence is expertly handled (playing for laughs one second and then hitting you in the face with a soberingly disturbing horrific act) thats the power of Ichi to make us question our morals and make us identify with the fact that in some circumstances we can find the pain of another humourous and in others we can find it terrifying - it questions why we find it such and offers not an answer but a challenge to explore our own minds and our own reactions to violence.

i think this may also be a reason for why some have such a strong view either for or against it - the personal attack for some is too much and so they choose to lambast the entire film as sick and twisted with no relief, no humour.

this for me (maybe with the brief exception of DOA 2) is Miike's finest work.

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by ghevans

this for me (maybe with the brief exception of DOA 2) is Miike's finest work.

I agree 100% - I haven't probably seen enough of his movies to really form a mature, considered opinion of his oeuvre as a film-maker, but I've not really fully dug what little else I've seen (bearing in mind my generalised attitude towards what I perceive IMHO as shocks for shocks' sake).

To me, Ichi is the film I've always wanted Miike to make: stylish, garish, loud, funny, horrible, super-gory, flashy and beautifully soundtracked and shot. I know Alex does feel the same way as me too, but he finds it harder to stomach gore (whereas for me, it tends to bypass me unless it's really really out there - which some bits of the uncut movie are )...

[def_tone]

Does anyone know who made the soundrack?

The wild house-jungle-thing that we hear when Kakahira is first introduced is almost too cool.

[SHOGUN_YAMATO]

Hm...l don't really know why some of you can't stand the juicy stuff in movies. Maby I'm depraved compleatly but the slaugher done by Ichi in the film was quite funny, especially one legged Karen Even the sadictic performances done by Kakihara were quite interesting (except for cutting Longs dick off). Maby I've seen to much blood in games, TV and on the streets (accidents and squashed annimals). I don't know really. But I have an advice for those who can't bare gore and guts flying around. Convince your brain that THIS IS ONLY A MOVIE and all of the gore are just BEUTIFUL SPECIAL EFFECTS OK ??

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN_YAMATO

But I have an advice for those who can't bare gore and guts flying around. Convince your brain that THIS IS ONLY A MOVIE and all of the gore are just BEUTIFUL SPECIAL EFFECTS OK ??

Hang on just a second there. No-one has to enjoy gore, no matter what your personal opinion of it is. If some don't care for it - and you can add me to that list, mainly 'cos I think it's a pretty tedious thing in a movie unless handled with style - then that's their personal sensibility.

If some people are more sensitive to it than others, it's probably because they have a more refined empathetic response. If you get off on road pizza, no-one is going to question your judgement here, but don't you go sitting in judgement on anyone else. OK?