Dark Water - original movie, book and ending theories

[Scuz]

Originally Posted by drkne1

Dark Water- My impression is that the mother gave her life to put Mitsuko's ghost to rest to protect her own daughter, and either she had to stay there and act as mother to keep Mitsuko's ghost from going after her own daughter again, or anyone elses', or...she never really got the chance to tell her daughter how much she loved her and say goodbye properly, and so her ghost lingered on till her daughter came to visit and she finally got the chance.

That's the same impression I got from the movie. The absolute final scene put it all together :P

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by Scuz

That's the same impression I got from the movie. The absolute final scene put it all together :P

You'd be surprised how many people it confuses, though... :?

However, that said, I'm still not really buying the whole Dark Water ending. It just doesn't seem properly motivated to me, I'm afraid. After all, Yoshimi has spent the entire movie fighting for the right to bring her daughter up, why should she suddenly decide to just give in like that?

Sorry, but thinking about it from a mom-to-be's POV, I can't geuinely believe that very well, not even as a monumental self-sacrifice to protect Ikuko... but that's just my feeling on it :?

[Murderworks]

I was one to email and ask about the ending to Dark Water.

I'm still not sure on the ending, and I won't even try. lol.

[drkne1]

Originally Posted by Mandi Apple

However, that said, I'm still not really buying the whole Dark Water ending. It just doesn't seem properly motivated to me, I'm afraid. After all, Yoshimi has spent the entire movie fighting for the right to bring her daughter up, why should she suddenly decide to just give in like that?

Sorry, but thinking about it from a mom-to-be's POV, I can't geuinely believe that very well, not even as a monumental self-sacrifice to protect Ikuko... but that's just my feeling on it :?

I was thinking that when the mother actually made the decission to go with Mitsuko that at that moment it may have occurred to her that perhaps her mother had some sort of similar reason for leaving her in her youth.

Seemed to me that even though she longed to be with her daughter that she realized to stay with Mitsuko settle that ghost was the only way to protect her daughter's life, because if she didn't there was no telling how far Mitsuko's reach was.

I think that was the motivation as well for her ghost staying there all that time. She had to continue to stay there and suppress Mitsuko, lest the child go after her daughter again, or some other child.

Didn't her daughter say something about her mother being there that whole time protecting her? So I'm thinking she had to stay there to continue staying between the ghost and her daughter. She gave her life and spirit indefinitely to protect her child, and will probably stay there forever or until Mitsuko's ghost can move on in some way.

Being that Mitsuko's ghost was actually still there when her daughter came to visit made me think that. That the mother has to keep staying there.

[Akitsu]

i agree with that.
but did u guys actually like the ending?
i wonder if it was originally supposed to end that way.
just think about it... the ending would take place in the year 2009... o_O

[OpheliasRoses]

******MASSIVE SPOILERS IN THIS POST*******
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Dark Water is one of my absolute favorites. My husband and I both had very different views about the ending. His theory was there was a "true ending" that Nakata was told would not work. He guesses that in a struggle to rewrite the ending, it took too much time and in the end the movie had to settle for a scrambled ending. He said that is the only thing he could find believable given that Yoshimi's character was built as such a strong and surviving one throughout the film. He said that he couldn't see Yoshimi would leaving her daughter like that, or give up so easily.

I disagree.

I loved the ending and in my opinion, it went very well with the story. Unlike my husband, I don't see the choice that Yoshimi made as leaving her daughter and giving up. She had no choice. I believe her choice was made due to a number of factors. First, Mitsuko was a restless and vengeful spirit due to her terrible death and the abandonment by her mother. When Yoshimi moved into the building, Mitsuko saw the wonderful relationship Ikuko had with her mother. She witnessed over and over the love and nurturing that Ikuko got. I am quite sure this created resentment and jealousy from Mitsuko, thus explaining why she began to lash out at her and wanted Ikuko completely removed from the picture., that way Yoshimi could take on the role as her mother instead.

When Yoshimi comes to understand this, she realizes that she must move, but if she does, she would completely lose her daughter to Ikuko's father. Time and time again it was made known that Yoshimi could not continue on without her daughter, especially if Ikuko's father was to have her. He would make sure they did not see each other. Then again, if Yoshimi stayed, Mitsuko would kill her for sure.

Yoshimi was stuck in a terrible predicament, but things all became clear with the final attempt to get rid of Ikuko. I think Yoshimi thought Mitsuko would follow them where ever they ended up escaping too because she knew deep down Mitsuko had selected her to be her mother and that there was no way of changing that. Mitsuko would kill Ikuko, wether they moved or not. The only way to save Ikuko was to surrender to Mitsuko.

Thats the horror of the movie, the fact that Mitsuko was watching them and because Yoshimi was such a good parent she was selected, because her daughter was so loved this happened to them. In the end, when Ikuko goes to their old apartment, her seeing her mother concluded everything. When Ikuko sees her mother, Yoshimi is very reserve in her affections, she acts with restraint. Yoshimi treats Ikuko like a friend rather than her beloved daughter. I think that is because she didn't want to spark Mitsukos jealousy again. Everything was just the same as when Ikuko had been little, that is because Mitsuko wanted that, she wanted to have and be what Ikuko did at that time. When Mitsuko appears behind Ikuko, Yoshimi's demeanor quickly turns, she seems almost afraid and she backs off quickly. It was as if Mitsukos appearance was meant to keep Yoshimi under her influence, to remind her of her place.

[Mandi Apple]

Welcome to the forum OpheliasRoses (you have a lovely site btw, I love The Sims and own several large and ungainly Gothic cities which I preside over like a wrathful Goddess ) - and a big thank you for your amazingly detailed and interesting theories concerning Dark Water - they've certainly given me something to chew over this weekend

Just one question tho' - I think I must have missed something somewhere, because I don't recall seeing something about Mitsuko's mother having abandoned her...???? I was under the probably incorrect assumption that it was Yoshimi's mother who had abandoned her - maybe I read the flashback scenes all wrong...

Now I'm really confused :?

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by Murderworks

I was one to email and ask about the ending to Dark Water.

I'm still not sure on the ending, and I won't even try. lol.

Like I probably said to you in my reply mail, you'd hardly be in a minority with this one - I'm still totally baffled and every time I discuss it with folks, I get even MORE baffled

[Vertigo]

Saw Dark Water at the EIFF last year and there was a huge argument with a bunch of folks in the foyer afterwords about what the ending was all about. I stayed well clear because I was (and still am) at the scratching head phase....

[drkne1]

Originally Posted by Mandi Apple

Just one question tho' - I think I must have missed something somewhere, because I don't recall seeing something about Mitsuko's mother having abandoned her...???? I was under the probably incorrect assumption that it was Yoshimi's mother who had abandoned her - maybe I read the flashback scenes all wrong...

Now I'm really confused :?

I thought in the missing child poster, or some kind of missing child report or something, it said something about Mitsuko living alone with her father? I'm pretty sure her mother was not in the picture, but I can't remember where I got that from. I'm going to have to watch the movie again hehe.

[Akitsu]

I think at some point in the movie, they mention Mitsuko having been abandoned by her mom or something... where r the morales going in Japan??

[OpheliasRoses]

[quote="Mandi Apple"]

Originally Posted by Murderworks

Just one question tho' - I think I must have missed something somewhere, because I don't recall seeing something about Mitsuko's mother having abandoned her...???? I was under the probably incorrect assumption that it was Yoshimi's mother who had abandoned her - maybe I read the flashback scenes all wrong...

Thank you so much for your compliments on my Sims site and my post. I was so tickled to read that because I am a *MAJOR* fan of Snowblood Apple. When I first started getting into Asian horror I came across this site and I was addicted. Every movie review you have given has been richly done and if it weren't for your reviews I never would have been able to find all the amazing flicks I have. Thank you so much for all that you do and all that you have done for us fans!

To answer your question about Mitsuko, I can tell you exactly which scene to look at. Remember when Mitsuko attacked Ikuko at her school and Yoshimi came to get her? The principal there then showed Yoshimi the drawing that Ikuko had done of Mitsuko. He started to explain who Mitsuko was, he said that her mother adandoned her, just took off and left one day. When you watch that scene and the camera pans out over the wall of drawings, it is interesting to note that every female child drawn has a bag like Mitsukos! Maybe that is some underlying hint that Mitsuko infulences more than we realize? Food for thought

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by OpheliasRoses

Thank you so much for all that you do and all that you have done for us fans!

Well, thank you for being so kind and appreciative! Really glad you like the site!

He started to explain who Mitsuko was, he said that her mother adandoned her, just took off and left one day.

I remember the scene well enough, but to be honest with you, I probably haven't seen Dark Water more than twice, and that was last year when I reviewed it, so I truly don't remember anything of that speech - I need to refresh my poor old sieve-like memory!

So... am I completely wrong about Yoshimi, then? I still seem to remember something vaguely about her having been in the same position in terms of being abandoned by her mother - has anyone here seen the movie lately, and if so, please can you tell me if my memory's all messed up and/or I'm going mad?!

[OpheliasRoses]

Originally Posted by Mandi Apple

So... am I completely wrong about Yoshimi, then? I still seem to remember something vaguely about her having been in the same position in terms of being abandoned by her mother - has anyone here seen the movie lately, and if so, please can you tell me if my memory's all messed up and/or I'm going mad?! :gocrazy:

No, actually you are right about Yoshimi. Those flashback sequences *were* of her when she was little. Her mother also abandoned her. From what I gather, because this happened to Yoshimi, she did everything to not be like her own mother. I saw that it intensified her attachment to her daughter and her will to fight for her at all costs.

I think that Mitsuko used Yoshimi's similar past in gaining sympathy from her, she used it as part of her lure. I am sure that Mitsuko saw the advantage it was, particularly in influence. That was the connection between them both, the one that ultimately sealed Yoshimi's fate.

[Mandi Apple]

Thank you for all your very enlightening posts OpheliasRoses

...and thank you for reconfirming my (partial) sanity re: Yoshimi - very much appreciated

[neverisapromise]

Question: Has anyone read the novel?

[Mandi Apple]

Originally Posted by neverisapromise

Question: Has anyone read the novel?

If your French is great, look at this coolness: http://www.chapitre.com/ - do a search for Koji Suzuki and you'll see they stock Ring (natch), Loop, Rasen, Ring 0, and Dark Water (!!!!) For real!

As usual, the French get all the good stuff, aeons before it gets any release anywhere else I'm not joking, you can pick up stuff like Charisma with French subs on amazon.fr really easily and cheaply

'S not fair, boo hoo hoo

[OpheliasRoses]

Originally Posted by Mandi Apple

Thank you for all your very enlightening posts OpheliasRoses

...and thank you for reconfirming my (partial) sanity re: Yoshimi - very much appreciated

Your very welcome! Although, I have to say that I find it hard to accept thanks from you, being that I am such a big fan of yours and Snowblood Apple

[scorchedblood]

Ok.. I finally watched this movie last night. And I am in complete agreement with OpheliasRoses on the ending. That was exactly my take on it. I really enjoyed Dark Water.. a rather creepy and sad movie. The photography and direction were amazing.

Of course I'm still sticking with guns and saying that I STILL think that Ghost Actress is Nakata's creepiest film to date. That movie flat out gave me super goose bumps in a few scenes and spooked me the hell out.

[asagaitomato]

just watched dark water agaian and it's fab...i think the ending gets better each time you watch it



+++++++++++++++SPOILERS+++++++++++++




(btw mitsuko was definately abandoned...there's the whole 'waiting for mum' at the school scene with the weird yelow cast and fish-eye lens...)




also...and i LOVE this...


have you noticed that when yoshimi talks to her daughter at the very very end.....listen for the loud drip in the soundtrack....


the last couple of sentences yoshimi speaks have a metallic reverb on them...



...like they're being said inside a water tank