Homoerotic (Slash) themes in Asian films

[Nakiko]

I hope no one takes offence to this, but well you all seem like open-minded people and it is to do with Asian cinema (sorrie if this is in the wrong area) Anyway, I was thinking, after I watched Versus about slashy (homoerotic themes) in Asian movies.

(Versus had that cute lil moment between the guy with glasses and that nutbag who used the knives--remember?)

Anyway, resident fangirl here was wondering if anyone else had seen any movies with similar themes and why it is considered so much more acceptable over there to have characters with different sexualities as opposed to say American movies or English ones. The same can be said for Manga and anime.

I wouldn't comment, but it appears to be a recurring thing in films such as cheap Killers, Versus, anything John Woo. I've been considering writing fics for some of these movies, but well-- the audience would'nt be vast so I'm probably wasting my time lol.

Anyway, babble over.

Title edited by the RBPC as per fangirl's request.

[Mandi Apple]

Anyway, resident fangirl here was wondering if anyone else had seen any movies with similar themes and why it is considered so much more acceptable over there to have characters with different sexualities as opposed to say American movies or English ones. The same can be said for Manga and anime.

I don't know necessarily that it is more acceptable - I seem to recall there being a bit of a fuss over the homoerotic kiss scene in Another Heaven, and certainly the dialogue in the movie would appear to suggest that there are still quite a few old-fashioned and outdated homophobic attitudes, even in Japanese film-making! :?

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the general attitude in the UK is as good - we do get lots of TV shows featuring gay storylines, as well as entirely gay-plotlined shows such as Queer as Folk etc... I honestly couldn't say, but it's certainly a fascinating point... 8)

[Rasen]

I wouldn't say it's really treated any differently than in domestic movies. The only films I've seen with any homoerotic content are (as mentioned) Versus, Tetsuo: The Iron Man and Gonin. Only the latter is even bold enough to include a kiss, the others merely imply the sexuality so that it becomes fairly clear but not exactly spelled out. Kinda like homoerotic content in movies made in the West. Top Gun for example :P

[Nakiko]

*Goes out to rent Another Heaven,Tetsuo and Gonin* Maybe then it's the whole deal that I'm fascinated by-- you know how Japan has a word for this genre of movies/manga and anime whereas it's just undefined by Western cinema.

And also as in Versus, it sometimes appears in the most out-of-place settings. I mean wouldn't you think such an overly masculine subject wouldn't lend itself to a slashy scene?

I see what you're saying tho Mandi-- I think Queer as folk was a genre definer in terms of exploring sexuality on screen, just like say Sex and the city for women.

[Rasen]

To be honest it's a new word on me (in that context anyway). When I first clicked on this topic, I expected it to be about Asia's answer to Friday the 13th :D any idea where the term comes from?! :?:

[Nakiko]

*giggles* Maybe someone should change the subject line for me then. To be honest I'm not sure where the slash term comes from-- I tend to use the Japanese version Yaoi or Shonen ai mostly.

Maybe it's something to do with the x separating characters names in fics and fanart i.e. gactkxhyde or ryuheixtadanobu *couldn't resist throwing that one in there lol*

[Rasen]

the X in between names is the Japanese equivalent of "vs" (versus) like the recent Gojira X Mekkagojira (Godvilla vs Mecha-Godzilla) you don't think Godzilla's gettin' it orn with MG, do you? 8O

:lol:

[Nakiko]

*LOL* Even I have my limits and slashing big 'ol Japanese monsters is one of them *snickers* Thanks for the clarification on that tho- i'll look into the real meaning.

[Apocalipstick]

you don't think Godzilla's gettin' it orn with MG, do you? 8O :lol:

That idea is just...wrong, ya know I could never watch the Godzilla series again don't ya :/

Hmmm but going back on-topic, I think even their music J-rock/Glam-rock/visual rock is fairly homoerotic in nature...especially Malice Mazier (super sexxy guys in dress hehe). They even star in their own horror movie called Bara no Konrei (bridal Of Rose) (2001) which is IMHO the most beautiful movie I have ever seen.

cover picture:
http://scape.kichigai.info/mm_bara_no_konrei.html

story plot (contain spolier):
http://www.animelyrics.com/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=3888

[Nakiko]

OMG! I LOVE Malice Mizer-- how did I not know this??! , thank you for the links and now there's another thing I must have.

Jrock is a highly homoerotic element of Japanese culture imho; especially if you look at the amount of Fanservice its main players participate in (DEG, Gackt *anyone remember Vanilla? lol*) I've been told that Moonchild-- Gackt and Hyde's movie has a lot of slash subtext between them. Shame the chances of me seeing the film are little to none.

[Judge Rage]

Unlike the more recent boom of gay based entertainment in America (the import of Queer as Folk, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, a gay themed "Bachelor" type show) the use of gay themes in entertainment is different in the west. I think we are moving from the Lamar from "Revenge of the Nerds" series to more realistic types.

I haven't thought about it much in Japanese entertainment, but at least in comics and movies, my feeling is the gay characters tend to be less realistically portrayed. The gay guy tends to be the bad guy, and there isn't always a positive aura surrounding him (I am sure there are examples that refute this, but it's just the impression I get). Of course in the Yaoi comics everyone is gay, right? (Not much experience there)

In general, blurred sexuality lines seem more accepted in Japan. There are several Variety Show regulars who seem to ride the line of sexuality, and I remember a very popular Visual Rock band, BI-SEXUAL who was popular in the late 80's. Hostess bars full of men dressed as women are very common, and there is the performance group, Takarazuka.

In conclusion, I don't always think the portrayal of gays in the media is that healthy, but I think it is made up with a healthy attitude (in general) towards gays and transvestites in Japan.

[Vertigo]

Kinda like homoerotic content in movies made in the West. Top Gun for example

I never actually thought that Top Gun was meant to be intentionally that way - I think in that case, it was more the unfortunate result of some exceptionally bad screenwriting....

[Saunders]

I think we are moving from the Lamar from "Revenge of the Nerds" series to more realistic types.


Best reference I've heard all week! :D

[Judge Rage]

Why does every movie which involves male bonding need to have a homosexual subtext. Top Gun? The Bad News Bears? U-571? I don't think so....

[Rasen]

I added Top Gun as a half-joke hoping somebody would get the referrence to a movie (who's title I have forgotten :oops: ) in which Quentin Tarantino makes a brief cameo. His only lines (as far as I can recall) are an indepth opinion on Top Gun's gay subtext.

[Apocalipstick]

I've been told that Moonchild-- Gackt and Hyde's movie has a lot of slash subtext between them. Shame the chances of me seeing the film are little to none.

Actually, the chances are pretti good that there will be a dvd out and you can probably get a bootleg with fansubs. I mean that movie staring 2 hugh rockstars, how can dvd companies ignore this movie. I am actually waiting for the dvd to be out in UK hehe

[Nakiko]

You and me both-- I'll be so happy if it does get subbed and shipped ^_^ Gackt and Hyde are possibly my two favourite Jrockers.

As for saying every movie about male-bonding has to have a gay subtext, well I don't think they all do, but when you look at war movies and the like there is factual evidence as in any situation where people depend on each other so much that relationships deeper than friendship did develop. So naturally some filmakers (whether consciously or not) do have elements of slash within their films.

[Apocalipstick]

I think a lot of times this is just people reading more into the movies then they should have lol, seeing ghosts everywhere when there's only shadow..

[Nakiko]

True, but sometimes it's blatantly obvious-- even my friend Steph commented on the slashiness of Cheap Killers LOL I do agree tho, people can make up some rather bizarre pairings through movies.

My other friend sat through LOTR, whispering to me about how cute the hobbits looked together ¬_¬ As long as it makes slash writers happy and doesn't harm anyone I think it's all good.

[Judge Rage]

I think the movie is called "Sleep with Me"

It's funny, considering he is pretty good buds with Tony Scott, who also directed True Romance....

[Rasen]

I think the movie is called "Sleep with Me"
Yup, that's it.

[asagaitomato]

doesn't the slash just come from fred/barney (imagining some kind of flintstones thing here for an example) ?



just as an aside, i think the strongest peice of homoeroticism i can recall is that in 'spartacus' with kirk douglas and tony curtis...

the uncutt version does containa a scene between laurence olivier and tony curtis which is fairl unsubtle in what it refers too (apologies if you've not seen it).

[Nakiko]

This thread is giving me so much to watch now LOL I'm gonna do some screen caps at my mate's house of the slashy bit in Versus and the slashy lines in Ichi the killer. *for my website, I'm not just a sad fangirl*

I noticed on a Miike interview (DOA dvd pal version) he is questioned about the amount of homoerotic themes in his movies-- to be honest I didn't really notice until I watched Ichi lol.

[Rasen]

[off topic] When you make those Versus grabs, can you do me a huge favour and get a decent sized grab of Sakaguchi just after his eye has changed. (Just before the BIG fight) If you're unsure which bit I mean please PM me.

If you do this, you'll be my favourite fangirl :D [/off-topic][/i]

[Nakiko]

Of course! While i'm at it does anyone want grabs from the following:

Ichi The killer
Battle Royale
Versus

[asagaitomato]

Of course! While i'm at it does anyone want grabs from the following:

Ichi The killer
Battle Royale
Versus

is there any homoeroticism in BR ?


*thinks*

[Nakiko]

I think that depends on how much you wish the characters were together--LOL I mean for a yaoi fic writer like myself having two male characters in the same room as each other is enough to write a fic on.

I think you could interpret some of the characters relationships as slashy, but there are no overt moments that come to mind.

I tend to work on realistic pairings when I do BR slash anyway-- such as;

ShuyaxNobu (I honestly hoped Nobu would say he had a crush on Shuya in that flashback-- but no *pout*)

MimuraxSetoxLijima based on Mimura's reaction when Lijima dies

KiriyamaxKawada; there's no reason for that, they just look cute together and I'm a die-hard Ando fan.

MimuraxSugimura; ditto

how about BR2? does anyone know of any slashy bits in that? Or possible pairings so I can get writing in advance? :lol:

[Rasen]

heh surprised you made absolutely no mention of Tsukioka, the only genuinely homosexual (at least clearly defined rather than neutral) character in the story :)

Not sure on BR2, although if you wanted to go in the opposite direction I wouldn't mind seeing a SakixMaki pairing :D

[Nakiko]

Did I miss that bit of the movie or are we talking Manga now? *had to look on BRonline to even remember who Tsukioka was!* Plus, you know me-- if we're talking movie, I only usually slash the best looking characters.

*hopes no one's noticed her strange obsession with slashing Motobuchi*

Oh yeah I forgot my friend Alice did SasagawaxKuronaga-- unusual, but pretty good imho.

As for Yuri-- well I'm giving Het a try; ChigusaxSugimura so you never know what the future will bring. Fic requests are welcome ^_^ *needs inspiration*

[Scuz]

Of course! While i'm at it does anyone want grabs from the following:

Ichi The killer
Battle Royale
Versus

If you don't mind, could you take a cap or two of Taro Yamamoto from BR for me? :love: You'd be the.. ummm... *counts* 7th best person in the world if you did! :P

[Judge Rage]

There is no homoerotic themese in BR, but I do appreciate your honesty. If you WANT there to be gay themes, all you need is 2 guys in a room.

Just please leave Beat Takeshi out of them... :o

[asagaitomato]

I think that depends on how much you wish the characters were together--LOL I mean for a yaoi fic writer like myself having two male characters in the same room as each other is enough to write a fic

heey ! down girl :)


obviously there are sexual overtones in BR - some of the characters' motivations are drawn for this, but i've never seen any in the film itself. sure, some of the direction is intentionally sexual/sexy in nature (the scene in the 'making of' that has fukasaku saying that eri ishikawa's performance in the lighthouse/bed bit isn't sexy enough (rough translation aside).

i'm racking my brains trying to contradict myself here...

(i started watching BR last night wit this in mind, but i'd been out and was a bit piddly so i retired to bed)


...but i thought part of the charm of BR (IMHO) was the contrast between the innocence of the characters and the violence of their fate.


btw - nakiko...i'm not knocking your slashfiction !!!!

[Nakiko]

Righto, replies;

Yes I will do some caps of Taro *drools some* The grabs will all be done sometime next week and mailed to the appropriate people.

Ewh! I would NEVER EVER include Beat Takeshi-- love him as I do that's a lil bit too creepy for me.

And yeah, I agree Asagai, the contrast is one of BRs strongest themes. I know ya weren't knockin my fics, afterall yaoi isn't to everyone's taste and I understand totally. As long as the C&C is constructive it's a good thing ^_^

*wanders off to write some Jrock fics instead*

[Mandi Apple]

Hahahaha! I'm going to kick slash back up to the top in homage to Alex's supracool new wallpaper (not yet up on the main site) for Blue Spring (http://www.mandiapple.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1249). Now that's a movie with slash on its mind :D The review for the main site should hopefully be up in a few days or so, then you'll see what I mean :D

Was there much slash in Moon Child (http://www.mandiapple.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210&highlight=moonchild), btw? I'd be very surprised if there wasn't, given the gacktxhyde subtext...

Hopelessly ontopic but offtopic - The Libertines could outslash the lot of 'em, despite the Class A substance abuse... tell me this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/mandiapple/libertinestapntin_018.jpg) isn't a slashy picture and I'll eat my socks :snigger:
Outslash that, Nak :highfive: (actually, I'm sure you can quite easily :D)

EDIT: just watching Versus for the caps, and the slashy bit doesn't half seem oddly tacked on - it just appears from nowhere IMHO, and doesn't seem to belong to the rest of the story... I've only seen half of it so far, so I hope there's a better explanation later, although from what I've seen to date, I doubt there will be... :(

[iijima]

Erm, this is my first post and I kinda guessed this might be a good place to start.

On the slashiness of Moonchild - of *course* its slashy. This is Gackt we're talking about. Even the bloody screentest is slashy (Hyde lying on a bed having a 'bad' dream, Gackt peering round the door looking as if hes naked....not so, but...it...really seemed that way)

But I took some screenshots from the first 30 minutes or so of the movie, just so you can see for yourselves ^^

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild04.jpg
Hyde's 'bad dream' face....yes. Dreaming about his old buddy whos name I've forgotton.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild09.jpg
Fag break in the middle of a gunfight...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild13.jpg
Hyde made Gackt cry. What on earth could make him feel better?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild15.jpg
......oh yes. Hyde's magical crotch of healing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild14.jpg
This scene makes the gakuhai fangirlies squee with joy.

There are so many more, but I don't want to flood the whole post with screenies
(but, for those of you looking for Taro pics...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild06.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/chibi_shin/moonchild/moonchild01.jpg )

On the slashiness of Versus - No. There was no reason. At all. The only possibly explaination I could see was that they knew I'd be watching that movie adnd they knew I'd be reaching to point of just turning it off out of sheer boredom/frustration so they threw in a 'special relationship' scene to keep me watching until the end just incase the script found out it could actually develop its characters. Turns out no, it didn't and the slashiness was never mentioned again.

On the slashiness of Battle Royale - In the movie, not so much. MimuraXIijima, but thats about it. In the book....oh lordy. One boy in the class fully admits hes gay and that Mimura is 'so his type'. Then you have poor, frustrated Mimura who can't ever imagine loving a girl or spending his life with one, but...wait...whats that? A tiny bug? Oh my! Must protect Yutaka! Must protect Yutaka! It really doesn't take that much reading into it to realise that, yes, Mimura and Yutaka have another one of those 'special relationships'. Then you have Nanahara mentioning Mimura in every other sentence. He may not exactly fancy the knickers off him, but theres a great respect there that slash fans can and will read into. And the Kiriyama Family make the fangirl in me weep.

And the Battle Royale Mimura x Iijima doujinshi that I got from ebay says that I'm not alone in seeing the slashy potential ^_~

I'd also talk about Blue Spring, but if I do I'll want to watch it again and its getting a bit late ^^; Ping Pong too. Overtones a plenty. Those Japanese schoolboys and their 'special relationships'.....

[Mandi Apple]

I feel much enlightened by all that... 8O OK, so asking if there was slash elements in a movie with both Gackt and Hyde in it was a bit on the stupid side, I apologise... :snigger: I just don't know whether to bother buying it since I'm a fan of neither - I can't imagine it boasts much in the way of an actual plot :lol:

[Nakiko]

Thanks Iijima ---- I totally agree with you regarding Moonchild --- it's possibly one of the most overtly slashy films I've seen all year (*of course owns the super expensive box set*) It knew it's market and aimed solely for them with regards to homoerotic overtones between both Gackt and Hyde and Taro Yamamoto who attacked Gackt regularly during the out-takes.

If you're looking for any kind of plot tho Mandi --- it's kind of non-existent. I'd recommend buying the USA version if you can --- it's alot cheaper.

*dies over The Libertines pic*

I haven't managed to read the BR novel yet, but vol.7 (I think it was) of the manga was blatant MimuraxYukata --- I was surprised the writer/artist managed to stretch a couple of death scenes out for a whole book, but it definatly gave more than a few hints that they too had a 'special relationship.'

And as for Ping Pong --- it was slashy enough for me to make SmilexPeco icons. apart from being a v.enjoyable and visually gorgeous film --- the close relationship of those two characters and the overt tension between them and Sam Lee's character made the film for me.

Oh and I forgot to mention --- a new community has just opened up on www.livejournal.com --- username: cinemasia_slash ---- there are some good reviews/pics etc there.

[papercut]

Definitely agree with Ping Pong and Blue Spring slashiness - especially with Matsuda Ryuhei as the star of both BS and Gohatto.

I have to agree with Nakiko's original post about there being more homoerotic subtexts (or texts even) in Asian film - or, at least, more "normalized" homoeroticism. I think Westerners are still too freaked by homosexuality for it to become as relatively accepted as in Japan and, I guess, the rest of Asia.

A good example was my 16 year old cousin's reaction to the fairly innocuous Waterboys. She though it was hysterical but hated the little gay boy. And I can't imagine what her brother's reaction would have been - probably utter disgust.

Unfortunately this is still an incredibly homophobic society, at least here in the US.

[coffeeboy]

homoeroticism in films has always been a topic of discussion, not just in asian cinema (top gun gets a lot of elbow-nudging action). but i guess it seems more rampant in asian films 'cause the friendships seem more "intimate". plus they're all soo damn pretty and, well, gentler-looking. :)

[Mandi Apple]

Unfortunately this is still an incredibly homophobic society, at least here in the US.
As far as I know, it's not much different here... :(

That's a question I want to ask though - is SE Asian society really any less homophobic than anywhere else? Since I've never been out of Europe and only have one Japanese friend, I really want to ask as it does seem as if being gay is more openly tolerated, if not actually better accepted...

[coffeeboy]

As far as I know, it's not much different here... :(

That's a question I want to ask though - is SE Asian society really any less homophobic than anywhere else? Since I've never been out of Europe and only have one Japanese friend, I really want to ask as it does seem as if being gay is more openly tolerated, if not actually better accepted...

well, being in an ASIAN country, i can say that it's a bit less homophobic here -- depending on what situation you are in. i've gone on a few dates with a guy where i've kissed them and held their hand in public and we haven't been assaulted or anything.

i guess with anything, it all comes down to decency. i think even straight people, if they display lewd or offensive public behaivior, will be greeted with disgust as well. but if one carries himself with an air of "decency", i think all will be good.

i'm just greatful that i live in a relatively open-minded city where i can be myself and not have to worry about being a victim of a hate crime.

[Mandi Apple]

Sorry about the OT-ness of my reply - I'm rushing to get Astrid's dinner ready so I'm just popping in and out :D

i guess with anything, it all comes down to decency. i think even straight people, if they display lewd or offensive public behaivior, will be greeted with disgust as well. but if one carries himself with an air of "decency", i think all will be good.
I'm glad that applies where you live, Larry - unfortunately, I can't say that that would happen here. In fact, I'd personally guarantee that if you came to Swindon - or indeed my hometown, Bristol, where I once got beaten up merely for wearing an outlandish hat :( - and displayed any kind of affection or attention for one of your dates, you would get beaten up before the night was over. That is a tragic reflection on UK society, but one I think that possibly mirrors the majority of the US in that respect.

i'm just greatful that i live in a relatively open-minded city where i can be myself and not have to worry about being a victim of a hate crime.
That answers my question completely. Thank you, Larry, for your enlightening comments :D

[papercut]

plus they're all soo damn pretty and, well, gentler-looking. :)

... And that's what makes them so damn tasty! *lol*



That's a question I want to ask though - is SE Asian society really any less homophobic than anywhere else? Since I've never been out of Europe and only have one Japanese friend, I really want to ask as it does seem as if being gay is more openly tolerated, if not actually better accepted...

Dunno about SE Asian but from what I've gathered in Japan it's not an issue of being "unnatural" (or sinful) but "abnormal". However, even if it's considered "abnormal" (that is, not what the majority does, not as in "freakish") they seem to have a much friendly, laid back attitude - even the straight guys. They don't get all "Get the **** away from me!" and start beating the crap out of some guy if they think he's hitting on them.

On the other hand they apparently don't really consider sex between two people of the same gender sex (yes, it's true - I don't think exactly what they think it is, tho.) By the same token, if a man and a woman are living in the same place they automatically assume they're having sex.

Go figure.

[Judge Rage]

Mandi, I am afraid you are right...that in many places in the U.S. an openly gay, or just different from the norm, person would not likely be tolerated. Polls show that less than 50% of Americans support gay marriage, though as you get to the bigger cities those numbers go up quite a bit. Where I live is pretty liberal, and there are gay couples where I work who have not met with much protest, as far as I know.

I just came back from Osaka and there are "gay areas". I am sure there are in Tokyo and other big cities, too. I know that Japan is very accepting of blurred gender lines, especially men acting, dressing or becoming women, though I am not sure about homosexuality, which doesn't neccessarily mean gender blurring. I do know that it isn't uncommon for gay students to go to high school or college overseas, as there is at least a perception the it is more accepted in the West.

Maybe "Gay is fine, as long as it isn't my son," might be a prevailing attitude.

[Nakiko]

Just a quick post to make comment on the Miike film 'Shinjuku Triad Society' which I saw last night --- definatly of all his films I've seen so far it's the most blatant use of homoerotica with gay characters taking significantly larger roles than the usual inserts into montages or overall hinted themes (see Riki Takeuchi and Sho Aikawa for an example.) they usually occupy.

I've seen him questioned upon the subject in an interview on the Premier Asia version of Ichi The Killer and he seemed to believe it was rather par for the course. ^^

[Alex Apple]

Is that slash though Nak? My impression of it is it's more of an implied homoeroticism (kind of like Blue Spring) rather than something much more, for want of a better phrase, out there.

STS I wouldn't have classified as a slashy movie by any means. On the contrary, its portrayal of homosexuality is actually quite brutal, used overwhelmingly as a power trip over others. There's an imbalance of power between Wang and his lover Zhou; Wang is an extremely unsympathetic character, to the extent you could almost call his portrayal homophobic; Zhou is as equally unpleasant, amoral and narcissistic, but totally in thrall to his lover.

The cop Tatsuhito's only recourse to break the ring of silence around Wang's gang is to simply to arrange the male rape of a prisoner in order to get crucial information... for me, more homophobic overtones.

[Nakiko]

Is that slash though Nak? My impression of it is it's more of an implied homoeroticism (kind of like Blue Spring) rather than something much more, for want of a better phrase, out there.

STS I wouldn't have classified as a slashy movie by any means. On the contrary, its portrayal of homosexuality is actually quite brutal, used overwhelmingly as a power trip over others. There's an imbalance of power between Wang and his lover Zhou; Wang is an extremely unsympathetic character, to the extent you could almost call his portrayal homophobic; Zhou is as equally unpleasant, amoral and narcissistic, but totally in thrall to his lover.

The cop Tatsuhito's only recourse to break the ring of silence around Wang's gang is to simply to arrange the male rape of a prisoner in order to get crucial information... for me, more homophobic overtones.

To be honest the term slash to a fangirl can cover any element of homoerotica from simple chemistry between characters to actual concrete fact regarding relationships etc so I guess.

*hides* Maybe I'm wrong, forget it.

[Alex Apple]

No! Don't hide! I wasn't having a go - just asking someone who I percieve as an expert in the topic and this forum's resident fangirl. See, I always though slash-ness was a sympathetic thing, a kind of pretty young things look at each other in a longing manner type thing, rather than something explicit, exploitative or downright violent and homophobic.

So... what would you classify as "slashy" rather than just "gay"? Is there any difference?

[Nakiko]

No! Don't hide! I wasn't having a go - just asking someone who I percieve as an expert in the topic and this forum's resident fangirl. See, I always though slash-ness was a sympathetic thing, a kind of pretty young things look at each other in a longing manner type thing, rather than something explicit, exploitative or downright violent and homophobic.

So... what would you classify as "slashy" rather than just "gay"? Is there any difference?


*peeks up* Sorry --- as a fangirl I reserve the right to be overly sensitive as well.

Hm...well --- slash is generally applied as the term for live action/fandoms outside of Asia so I suppose it's use here is slightly questionable, but still relates better than Yaoi which I personally equate solely with manga and anime.

I'd say slash can apply to any form of 'gay' cinema --- afterall if you look at alot of other slash fandoms they are far from all romantic, easily resolved fluff. Pretty much anything nowadays can be slashed on the smallest of basis (or indeed none at all.) so despite the fact that STS (etc) is a pretty bleak depiction of homosexuals and their practices I think it still falls under the general umbrella of slash work.

*is tired and apologises for talking rubbish in advance*

[Alex Apple]

Thanks Nak. I really wasn't sure after your post what falls under the moniker of slash - so consider me corrected :)

[skhottyboi]

Mandi, I am afraid you are right...that in many places in the U.S. an openly gay, or just different from the norm, person would not likely be tolerated. Polls show that less than 50% of Americans support gay marriage, though as you get to the bigger cities those numbers go up quite a bit. Where I live is pretty liberal, and there are gay couples where I work who have not met with much protest, as far as I know.

Yeah, at least in the US, I think it's completely a matter of what region you live in and how big the town/city is. I live in Los Angeles, and for the most part, homosexuality is really not an issue. I'm openly gay and will show affection to another guy in public (not any more affection than a straight couple would, mind you) and harldy anyone even seems to really notice. But then I've been to towns that are less than two hours away that are EXTREMELY homophobic. I'm just glad I don't live in such a place.

(Sorry if I'm getting WAY off topic. Just felt the need to reply.)

[Mandi Apple]

It's not OT at all: it's almost as though it's something which is accepted only in certain 'designated' cities. I mean, you'd expect a strong, open and usually-unhassled gay community in LA, as you would also in SF, because historically that's well-established. But what about other cities? And especially smaller, more 'provincial' places?

I'm guessing that's probably the same in Tokyo - that there's a similar community there, as you might expect a certain amount of liberalism in such a major capital city - although from comments I've read concerning public displays of affection/emotion being something which the Japanese aren't comfortable with, that makes it a little more difficult again I guess... :dizzy:

[skhottyboi]

It's not OT at all: it's almost as though it's something which is accepted only in certain 'designated' cities. I mean, you'd expect a strong, open and usually-unhassled gay community in LA, as you would also in SF, because historically that's well-established. But what about other cities? And especially smaller, more 'provincial' places?

Yeah, that's exactly how it is, at least in the US. I think one thing that people living outside the US don't always realize (pls excuse my American spelling :-P ), is that there's little sense of National culture here because the country's so geographically large and ethnically/culturally/politically diverse. I think as a whole, the US is actually quite a conservative country. But there are places in the US that are some of the most liberal places on Earth.

I've never been to Japan :-( , so I can't say how it is there. But I do work in a place that is visited by Japanese tourists on a daily basis. And I have noticed that the people from the large cities are very different in many ways that the people who live in rural places. For example, women from Tokyo often act very similar to American women, while women from smaller towns/cities tend to be EXTREMELY polite and shy, and tend to dress much more conservatively. So I suppose, based simply on conjecture, that attitudes about homosexuality might also depend a lot on where in Japan one lives.