Essential Italian Horror Cinema?

[Mandi Apple]

Has anyone any nice recommendations for meeee?! :oops: I'm totally knowledge-free about all the greats, eg Mario Bava, Lucio Fulci etc...

I know we already have a Dario Argento thread (http://www.mandiapple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148) running, as well as a Cipri e Maresco thread (http://www.mandiapple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161) too, but I know the Italians were supposed to have produced some real corkers, partic. during the 60's and 70's, and I don't even know where to start! :cry:

[Vertigo]

Mario Bava - inspiration for Argento and countless others. Start off with "Blood and Black Lace", "Black Sunday" and "Kill Baby Kill"....

I can provide you with tapes if you so desire.....?

[Del Demoni]

Most of Argento's (except 'Phantom of the Opera') are damn fine. Same goes with Mario Bava. For Lucio Fulci, I would recommend 'Don't Tortue a Duckiling', 'The Lizrad in a Woman's Skin' and 'The Beyond'. 'Dellamorte Dellamore' by Michele Soavi (starring Rupert Everett) is the best Italian Horror film I have seen in the last 10 years. Also check out, 'What have you done to Soalnge?' by Massimo Dallamo and 'Dead Waters' by Mario Baino. So much style. That's all for now.....

[Chryse]

Mario Bava's Planet of the Vampires is a weird sci-fi/horror hybrid, has a few good scenes, including one that inspired the dead space jockey in Alien.

Bava also did Black Sabbath (not to be confused with his Black Sunday), a little triptych of horror shorts, hosted by Boris Karloff. The first one's so-so, bit of a giallo, the second one's better, and the third has a couple of Ring-worthy scares, and stars Jacqueline Pierreux, mother of Jean-Pierre Léaud (Antoine Doinel in the Truffaut films).

Lucio Fulci can be a bit over-the-top repulsive, but The Beyond is good, with a fantastic ending.

And I don't think anyone in the Argento thread has mentioned Inferno yet, the sequel to Suspiria, this time with an unrestrained Keith Emerson score.

[Vertigo]

Oh yeah..."Inferno" is real good too! A very fitting follow-up to "Suspiria".

And I'm glad to see mention of both "The Beyond" and "Whatever Happened to Solange"...too....what great company to be in guys!

If you go for "Black Sabbath" make sure it's not the hacked to death AIP version - go for the European cut (aka "The Three Faces of Fear") - the Image DVD for this version is the best.

[Yani]

And I'm glad to see mention of both "The Beyond" and...

Me too, Beyond is great! I'll recommend that because it's one of the few italian horror movies I've seen... :?

[scorchedblood]

'Dellamorte Dellamore' by Michele Soavi (starring Rupert Everett) is the best Italian Horror film I have seen in the last 10 years.

Also known as Cemetary Man.. and I have to agree.. that is one of my all time fave horror films. Not your usual horror fare to be certain.. it wanders off on a path all of it's own. Laden with very Dark humor, great sfx - cinematography... everything about it is awesome. If you guys haven't seen this little gem.. you need to make a run to your local video store now.

[theNomad]

:twisted:'Dellamorte Dellamore'its such a unique movie one of my guilty pleasures...sure Italian horror cinema has allways been on the exploitation side a little but....the classic gaillo films by Mario Bava,Lucio Fulci & Dario Argento are allways must see affairs...my fave being

The Top 10 Classic Gaillo Movies
Black Sunday (61) Bava
Blood and Black Lace (64) Bava
The Bird with the Crystal Plumage (70) Argento :) [My Fave]
Twitch of the Death Nerve (71) Bava
A Lizard in a Woman's Skin(71)Fulci
Don't Torture a Dead Duckling (72) Fulci
Murder in Paris (73) Ferdinando Merighi
Deep Red (75) Argento
Tenebrae (82) Argento
Stage Fright (87) Michele Soavi
Just got hold of a rare uncut Italian copy of Giallo a Venezia (79)
http://www.imdb.com/Title?0079207
Ive heard its one of the most sleazy & vicious Italian Giallo films but not speaking Italian not got round to watching it......erm if by any chance you have'nt watched any of these films its worth putting them all on your must see list right now......

[Del Demoni]

theNomad, you have a great list of Italian films, but if I may nitpick just a bit, 'Black Sunday' (what a great film) would not be a Giallo. I think it belongs in the same class as the great Monochrome Horror films of the 30's, whereas Giallos are more thriller-esque.

[Vertigo]

theNomad, you have a great list of Italian films, but if I may nitpick just a bit, 'Black Sunday' (what a great film) would not be a Giallo. I think it belongs in the same class as the great Monochrome Horror films of the 30's, whereas Giallos are more thriller-esque.

Tis true what the man says. "Black Sunday" I believe, was made to cash-in on the old Universal horrors and also the Hammer movies which were flooding the market at the time. Would I be right in saying that the first "Giallo" (from the Italian for yellow as the movies patterned themselves on "Giallo" books popular at the time - thrillers with lurid yellow covers...) would be Bava's "Blood and Black Lace"...?

[Del Demoni]

Vertigo: I believe the first (film) Giallo is 'The Girl Who Knew Too Much' by Mario Bava from 1962 (his only other B & W film) with Leticia Roman and John Saxon. 'Blood and Black Lace' (1964) was the first to include the ultra-violent murders that we have come to know and love.

[Vertigo]

I believe the first (film) Giallo is 'The Girl Who Knew Too Much' by Mario Bava from 1962 (his only other B & W film) with Leticia Roman and John Saxon.

Ooh - that's one I haven't seen - thanks for the tip-off DD

[Del Demoni]

No problem Vertigo. Mario & Dario are a couple of my favorite topics.

[Vertigo]

Have you got the two FAB Press books?

I noticed on DiabolikDVD a couple of weeks ago that there is a new German release of "Blood and Black Lace" with a limited edition cover and an anamorphic widescreen transfer which apparently wipes the floor with the VCI version. I wish it was so expensive though...

Again on the subject of BABL, would you know where I could get a copy of the soundtrack?

[Del Demoni]

Vertigo, yes I do have the 2 FAB Press books on Mario & Dario and they are both great (I like the Bava one better as I already have quite a few books on Argento) and I am going to pickup the new Takeshi Miike book by FAB too. Sadly, I do not know where you can purchase the soundtrack to 'Blood & Black Lace'. I will check around and if I find any info, I will be sure to send it your way.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Italian horror/thriller is just to vast to be entirely considered. I'm Italian, so I've sssen most of those movies you're talking about, and mostry of them must be considered masterpieces or crap, it all dependes on your tastes and mood.
Some random toughts:
1)Dario Argento has ended his career after Opera everyting that followed is just mainstream crap, believe me, those guy is brain-dead and write awful silly plots bad acted by unknown actors-wannabee.
2)Lucio Fulci is just to anarchic to be considered in any way. He did real good movies in the 70es, but his 80es production is awful. Did you know that he started making mainstream comedies during early sixties?
3)Bava (father) and Bava (son) are good ones, the 1st is a master, the 2nd a very good director.
Mmmm what can reccommand yoy...
Fulci = Zombie 2 kicks ass! But NOT Zombie 3, this is a total lame.
Argento = Deep Red, Suspiria, Inferno
Bava father = anything you can get
Bava son = Demons, Demons 2 those are good and hard movies, a tribute to Cronemberg stuff but weel done.
Other interesting movies are Dellamorte Dellamore/Cemetery man, Wax mask (remake by fx master Sergio Stivaletti), and fropm director Pupi Avati comes a terryfing "trilogy": La casa dalle finiestre che ridono, Zeder, L'arcano incantatore.
I'll came back later with some oethr cool titles...

[Del Demoni]

Dr. Gonzo, I will agree that Argento has lost a step from his early days, but 'Trauma', 'The Stendahl Syndrome' and his half from 'Two Evil Eyes' are very good fims that are a lot better than most and I still look forward to his films like a kid at Christmas. His only film that disapointed me was 'The Phantom of the Opera'. Fulci (I will admit that he has put out more crap than good and yes I did know about his early Comedies) had 3 great 80's films, 'The Beyond', 'City of the Living Dead' & 'House by the Cemetery'. I have seen and enjoyed 'Zeder' and am searching out the other Pupi Avati that you mentioned.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Recently was released a full-uncut version of Ruggero Deodato's 80es cult "Cannibal Holocaust" in DVD for home video, this is another Italian bestseller, if you like cannibals and extreme gore :twisted:

[Atomagevampire]

I think you might enjoy some giallos (like others have mentioned). Some have lots of style, while others tend to go for the sleazy stuff. But, in general, check these out:

Deep Red (Argento's best and probably the greatest giallo ever made)
Tenebrae (another good Argento flick)
Suspiria (some think this is the best Argento....amazing use of colors!)
The Beyond (I've never been a big fan of Fulci, but this one is getting better with each viewing)
The House With Windows that Laughed (GREAT Avati movie with some heavy use of atmosphere and creepiness)
Cannibal Holocaust (Deodato's disturbing foray into the cannibal genre...can be hard to sit through)
What Have They Done With Solange? (another great giallo!)
Black Sabbath (papa Bava's excellent trilogy of shorts....the last one is terrifying!)
Demons (son Bava's hyper-crazy film about a theater being overrun with demons....insane pacing)

Those are some good ones to start out on.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Hey, does anyone know that Ruggero Deodato anticipated The Blair Witch Project concept in his Cannibal Holocaust?!
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The movie was about some footage pretended to be found in south American forest after a filming expedition disappeared months ago, and was mounted as a shockumentary. The director himself, at the launch od the movie, hidden the entire cast for a couple of months, and told the press his movie was based on real and actual facts. Then, years after, a couple of cinema students robbed the same idea/concept and made TBWP :roll: :twisted:
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** SPOILER END*

[Dr.Gonzo]

Anyone interested into trading Italian horrors/giallos with oter stuff? I think I should be able to get some and record some on SKY Italy, right now there are some Argento's giallos featured... :twisted:

[Chryse]

Hey, does anyone know that Ruggero Deodato anticipated The Blair Witch Project concept in his Cannibal Holocaust?!

This was one of the things that critics of Blair Witch brought up. There was another movie, made at about the same time as Blair Witch, called The Last Broadcast, which did something similar, but to lesser effect than Blair Witch. (Which is too bad, since they had a "real" legend to work with, and a good one to boot: The Jersey Devil, haunting the ol' Pine Barrens.)

Here's a didja know right back at you: Didja know Deodato worked with Rossellini? On (if I'm not mistaken) Rome, Open City and Il Generale della Rovere.

[Del Demoni]

(Back in the day) I was telling everybody who would listen about the 'Cannibal Holocaust' and "Blair Witch' connection. Alas, no one cared.

[Yani]

Now I've seen Cannibal Holocaust. Being one of the most disturbing movie I've seen, it's still an excellent part of cinema. Some parts were quite nasty to watch... 8O

[CarlR16]

Dario Argenta's Opera is a must see

[Alex Apple]

Now I've seen Cannibal Holocaust. Being one of the most disturbing movie I've seen, it's still an excellent part of cinema. Some parts were quite nasty to watch... 8O

Well, Mandi and I sat through this tonight. I get the feeling the BBFC butchered huge great swathes of the Vipco cut we've got - there were some jarring cuts, not least in the turtle eating and rape scenes. But in any case I'm none too sorry, because, and I hesitate to use such a word but still, it was TRASH. And that's not trash in the Wild Zero B-movie kind of way, but trash in the sense of totally-without-merit.

I dunno, it seemed it was trying to shock for shock's sake. Some of it was truly difficult to watch (not least the leg cauterizing... probably a bit the BBFC had something to do with, as it was all a bit nonsensical) but as a film I don't feel it had anything to say. It wasn't even entertaining.

Please, feel free to shoot me down. It's seldom a film completely disgusts me, but this was one... :o

EDIT: This page (http://bghorror.topcities.com/issue13.html) lists the cuts as

We have now classified the infamous Cannibal Holocaust at '18', following 5 minutes 44 seconds of cuts as follows:-

At 17 mins: Remove all sight of muskrat being killed.
At 19 mins: Following LS sight of man holding naked woman's head as she lies on the ground, remove sight of woman dragged through the mud and having her legs forced apart.
At 20 mins: In same sequence, and following LS sight of man preparing to attack naked woman lying on the ground, remove all subsequent sight of woman struggling and being raped with wooden dildo.
At 20 mins: In same sequence, and following sight of man raising nail-studded mud ball, remove all subsequent sight of naked woman being genitally mutilated.
At 31 mins: Following LS of tribesmen on riverbank, remove all sight of woman being raped. Resume on MS sight of men slicing corpse.
At 51 mins: Following sight of giant turtle dragged from river, remove all sight of turtle being dismembered alive and disembowelled. Resume on MS sight of man filming. Reaction shots in which turtle or parts of turtle are not visible may remain.
At 60 mins: Following CU sight of blonde man's face, remove entire sequence where top of monkey's head is sliced off and blood is drained into a bowl.
At 63 mins: Following LS sight of man approaching tethered pig, remove subsequent sequence showing tethered pig being kicked and shot.
At 76 mins: Significantly reduce rape sequence.
At 82 mins: Remove MS sight of woman's genitals before she is dragged away by cannibals.
At 86 mins: After woman is partially stripped, remove all sight of her underwear being removed and her subsequent rape.

Kind of makes sense - never saw the pig kicking, the turtle disembowelling was only hinted at, no monkies, the rapes virtually non-existent, and what the hell is a muskrat?

[Yani]

Well, Mandi and I sat through this tonight. I get the feeling the BBFC butchered huge great swathes of the Vipco cut we've got - there were some jarring cuts, not least in the turtle eating and rape scenes. But in any case I'm none too sorry, because, and I hesitate to use such a word but still, it was TRASH. And that's not trash in the Wild Zero B-movie kind of way, but trash in the sense of totally-without-merit.

I dunno, it seemed it was trying to shock for shock's sake. Some of it was truly difficult to watch (not least the leg cauterizing... probably a bit the BBFC had something to do with, as it was all a bit nonsensical) but as a film I don't feel it had anything to say. It wasn't even entertaining.

Please, feel free to shoot me down. It's seldom a film completely disgusts me, but this was one... :o

Kind of makes sense - never saw the pig kicking, the turtle disembowelling was only hinted at, no monkies, the rapes virtually non-existent, and what the hell is a muskrat?

No need to start shooting, everyone has their opinions. I know few people myself who won't or don't wanna see that movie ever. And I understand. I thought it was a very good film after all. :P

And the version you saw was cut indeed. A muskrat is... a rat of some sort. :lol:

[Mandi Apple]

I'm probably going to annoy quite a lot of people with this, but having watched Dellamorte Dellamore for the first time this afternoon, I'll confess to not having been exactly blown away by it. To be honest, I thought it was a bit of a baffling experience - an entertaining one maybe, but baffling for all the wrong reasons.

For a start, I found it a bit puzzlingly cartoony and lightweight, in comparison to the themes it seems to be dealing with (obsession, death, and insinuated paedophilia): the characterisations are, for my taste, a bit 2D and more like caricatures.

I didn't quite get the comedy either - seemed a little slapstickish and predictable for my tastes, so in conjunction with the horror/darker elements I felt it was a little inappropriate.

And although the sets were pretty enough, again I got the idea that you could walk through the cemetery and, say, whistle a bit overloudly, and all the tombstones would fall down at once. :lol:

Do you guys think that this cartoony element was meant, as if to juxtapose with the gravity of the themes? :dizzy: Sorry, but I honestly don't get it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the movie, maybe they'll help me understand why everyone else seems to be raving about it... I like to remain open-minded :dizzy:

Anchor Bay are apparently releasing it sometime in the summer, so at least it'll be more readily available (although V's tip-off pointed me in the right direction for a nice Red Edition copy)...

[Vertigo]

I'm probably going to annoy quite a lot of people with this, but having watched Dellamorte Dellamore for the first time this afternoon, I'll confess to not having been exactly blown away by it. To be honest, I thought it was a bit of a baffling experience - an entertaining one maybe, but baffling for all the wrong reasons.

Ahhhh....welcome to the world of late 80's/early 90's Italian 'Horror' Cinema dearest M. A world where most horror movies are usually less than horrific and most are funnier than they have any right to be. And before anyone squishes my skull, I'm not 'having a go' here as I like these movies as much as the next. But I can never get my head round the things that some folks say about these movies being genuinely scary...they're not really meant to be are they? With some deliciously over-the-top (and at times, incredibly fake-looking) SPFX, uneven writing and a swollen tongue planted firmly in a rotting cheek, they do no more than make you giggle at the silly bits and squirm at the dodgy blood'n'gore.

As for being baffled, you've every reason to be - most of these movies are unsure of themselves at the best of times - horror movie? Slapstick zombie comedy? Social satire? I most movies of this type there are always at least 3 or 4 different elements at work...and usually working against each other in spite of themselves - interesting production design, slapstick comedy, a half-hearted attempt at some sort of social commentary (or tackling of a normally taboo issue), dodgy stabs (ahem) at a romantic angle, black humour...etc

For a start, I found it a bit puzzlingly cartoony and lightweight, in comparison to the themes it seems to be dealing with (obsession, death, and insinuated paedophilia): the characterisations are, for my taste, a bit 2D and more like caricatures.

I didn't quite get the comedy either - seemed a little slapstickish and predictable for my tastes, so in conjunction with the horror/darker elements I felt it was a little inappropriate.

The characters (with the exception of Francesco Dellamorte himself - wondefully dry Rupert Everett) are very cartoon-like and I think was very much the intention on the whole.This might be in no small part due to the movie being written by Tiziano Sclavi who also created the Italian comic-book character 'Dylan Dog', a London based private eye whose line of practise stretches from divorce-work to zombies and werewolves...the occult in general.
http://www.thrillingdetective.com/dylan.html
http://www.ubcfumetti.com/dd/desc_en.htm
As you pointed out though, this doesn't really sit well with some of subject matter as you have outlined above and I think this is more the fault of the handling of the material than anything else. I think the grasp of what this movie should be (or wanted to be) was lost by the director. There was little blending of the elements involved - it's all too clunky for my liking. How can we make a mash-up of "The Evil Dead" and "Return of the Living Dead" but with a darker sexual element and stronger political and social satire? Erm....?

And although the sets were pretty enough, again I got the idea that you could walk through the cemetery and, say, whistle a bit overloudly, and all the tombstones would fall down at once. :lol:

There does seem to a touch of the polystyrene about the old props - but I think this is due more to bad lighting than anything else. It's funny how in some movies, fake can look real and real can look fake depending on how it's lit. On the whole, I think the set design is good and more often than not, is well shot and lit. But there the odd times, when as you say...all it would take is quick puff....

Do you guys think that this cartoony element was meant, as if to juxtapose with the gravity of the themes? :dizzy: Sorry, but I honestly don't get it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the movie, maybe they'll help me understand why everyone else seems to be raving about it... I like to remain open-minded :dizzy:

Anchor Bay are apparently releasing it sometime in the summer, so at least it'll be more readily available (although V's tip-off pointed me in the right direction for a nice Red Edition copy)...

To be honest, I think it's the fault of the movie more than anything else...certainly not a fault of yours in the reading of the material. I think it's just as you said at the top - an reasonably entertaining movie but ultimately baffling. It's nothing more than that regardless of how the movie's bigger fans will tell you otherwise. Certain elements of the plot are clumsily handled or left in a muddle - there are all manner of attempts at satire concerning the state (no pun intended) of Italian society but they're blink-and-you'll-miss-'em - this is one of these movies where, unless you have notes from the screenwriter in your hand, you're likely to miss a lot of what was once on the page but got lost on it's way to the screen. So all you're really left with is an enjoyable 'romp' which could have been more. I know I'll get shot by those die-hard Italian cinema fans out there but I think in better hands, "Dellamorte Dellamore" could have been a great movie - a fantastic combination of dark-humour, gross-out comedy effects, interesting symbolism and a moving story. It has all those in place...but as it is, the mix and the execution is wrong.... it's an awkwardly constructed effort which has some really inspired elements but absolutely no sense of balance. I've never really rated Michele Soavi as a director - he's just not in the same league as the likes of Mario Bava or Dario Argento.

I don't think I'm really answering much here M, or helping you understand the movie any better - to be honest I think you've seen all there is of it. I think the word of mouth on this movie over the years has gained it more weight than it really deserves. Again don't get me wrong - I really like it, but as nothing more than a light oddity with an amusing central performance by the fabby Rupert Everett - I think if it hadn't been for Everett this movie would've been long forgotten IMHO.

I know at least two people that will wax lyrical about how this is one of the most important horror movies to come out of Italy in the 1990's. If that's true, then it's more of a comment on the rest of the output during those years than anything else.

It may be the case that the new Anchor Bay release will have an untold wealth of material which will help better explain the movie and it's intentions. Knowing AB and the stellar work they do on movies in this genre, I'm sure this will be the case and I for will have the opportunity learn a lot more about this flawed but enjoyable movie and perhaps see it with different eyes.

Anyway...I've bored you enough....there's a-drinking to be done and I'm off out.

A Happy New Year to one and all and and I'll see you on the other side of midnight....

Uncle V.

[Mandi Apple]

An amazing post V - thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us :D Now I don't feel as if I must have somehow missed the point, which is very encouraging :D

I know at least two people that will wax lyrical about how this is one of the most important horror movies to come out of Italy in the 1990's. If that's true, then it's more of a comment on the rest of the output during those years than anything else.
Hmmmm... I read a quote on IMDB that claimed it was "the most important and best movie of all, ever", so I was a bit nonplussed when I'd actually watched it... :-?

It may be the case that the new Anchor Bay release will have an untold wealth of material which will help better explain the movie and it's intentions. Knowing AB and the stellar work they do on movies in this genre, I'm sure this will be the case and I for will have the opportunity learn a lot more about this flawed but enjoyable movie and perhaps see it with different eyes.
It's certainly interesting, but profound? Not that I could see... :-?

Anyway...I've bored you enough....there's a-drinking to be done and I'm off out.
A Happy New Year to one and all and and I'll see you on the other side of midnight....
You have yourself some fun and get thoroughly sloshed hon, I'm with you in spirit(s) :drunk: :hug:

[Vertigo]

An amazing post V - thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us :D Now I don't feel as if I must have somehow missed the point, which is very encouraging :D

I just read it back - I'd had a couple of snifters prior to rattling it off - my apologies for the somewhat overlong rant. Alcohol...it's a devil so it is... :snigger:

It's certainly interesting, but profound? Not that I could see... :-?

You're right M. It's good fun but it's not as deep as it thinks it is....and nowhere near as profound as lot of folks would have you believe.

You have yourself some fun and get thoroughly sloshed hon, I'm with you in spirit(s) :drunk: :hug:

Hic! Moi? I can assure you I have only had a few ales.... :drunk: :dance:

[Mandi Apple]

My motto is, if you can't get falling-down pished on New Year's Eve, when can ya? :snigger: This is no fun, Alex is asleep, Astrid is asleep and I'm the only one still awake and still sloshed :drunk:

It wasn't a rant, anyway, it was a brilliant post and I'm awfy glad you made it 'cos I was starting to think I was going round the twist :D

[Vertigo]

My motto is, if you can't get falling-down pished on New Year's Eve, when can ya? :snigger: This is no fun, Alex is asleep, Astrid is asleep and I'm the only one still awake and still sloshed :drunk:

Aww...bless 'em. Lil cudees.

It wasn't a rant, anyway, it was a brilliant post and I'm awfy glad you made it 'cos I was starting to think I was going round the twist :D

Ha ha ha. Thank you kindly Ma'am.

V x

[jim harper]

Cemetery Man is quite simply a wonderful film. In every respect. So there.

Italian horror has always been a favourite of mine. Even wrote a book about it once. I'm still hoping Soavi will do another theatrical horror movie; his four films are all great, in my oh-so-humble opinion.

Fulci I think went through a great period (Zombie, City of the Living Dead, The Beyond), but beyond that his material is patchy. I know part of that is due to the absurd Italian obsession with making each film even cheaper than the last one (as opposed to chucking more money into a winning formula), and part of it was his own stubborn streak. I would have loved to have seen how his Wax Mask would have turned out.

Lamberto Bava has done some absolutely corking films (Demons and Demons 2, A Blade in the Dark, Macabre) but if I have to sit through another piece-of-**** made-for-TV movie from him I'll scream. Such a shame, since he does actually have some talent.

I'm very eager to see how Argento's next film in the Three Mothers trilogy turns out. I enjoyed Sleepless but I've heard nothing good about The Card Player, so I probably won't buy anything of his until the Suspiria/Inferno appears.

Phew.

[Vertigo]

Cemetery Man is quite simply a wonderful film. In every respect. So there.

As one who is knowledgable on the subject being that you've written a book and all, would you care to elaborate a little on your comments. In order to help Mandi with the queries she posted above I'm sure a detailed insight from your good self would be much appreciated. As I said myself above, I really liked the movie in spite of it's flaws.

Lamberto Bava has done some absolutely corking films (Demons and Demons 2, A Blade in the Dark, Macabre) but if I have to sit through another piece-of-**** made-for-TV movie from him I'll scream. Such a shame, since he does actually have some talent.

I must say that although I loved both Demons movies in my youth, I've yet to see a movie from Lamberto that once and for all brings him out of the shadow of Dario Argento and father Mario Bava. And as you've pointed out above, from the way he's going with recent efforts, I doubt we'll be seeing that emergence anytime soon.

I'm very eager to see how Argento's next film in the Three Mothers trilogy turns out. I enjoyed Sleepless but I've heard nothing good about The Card Player

There's nothing good to say about Il Cartaio to be blunt. I only hope that Argento receives a time-warping knock to the head prior to embarking on the next chapter of the Three Mothers saga....

As a fan of Italian Horror myself, I'd love to hear more about the book that you've written Jim. Where can I get a hold of a copy?

[jim harper]

As one who is knowledgable on the subject being that you've written a book and all, would you care to elaborate a little on your comments. In order to help Mandi with the queries she posted above I'm sure a detailed insight from your good self would be much appreciated. As I said myself above, I really liked the movie in spite of it's flaws.

Ah, no, you mustn't confuse a rare bout of immodesty with the actual knowledge to back it up... ;)

As far as Dellamorte dellamore is concerned, I think Mandi is on the right track. For me, the film's black humour is present primarily to prevent the atmosphere from becoming too oppressive. It isn't a particularly optimistic film, but the streak of black humour stops it from being yet another grim existentialist tract. The over-the-top gore also serves to underline the 'unreality' Francesco's world.

Although I have to say I haven't spotted the insinuated paedophilia- could you explain further?

I must say that although I loved both Demons movies in my youth, I've yet to see a movie from Lamberto that once and for all brings him out of the shadow of Dario Argento and father Mario Bava. And as you've pointed out above, from the way he's going with recent efforts, I doubt we'll be seeing that emergence anytime soon.

I was excited to read back in 1999 that he was working on another theatrical horror film, this time written by Pupi and Antonio Avati, but it appears the project never got off the ground.

As a fan of Italian Horror myself, I'd love to hear more about the book that you've written Jim. Where can I get a hold of a copy?

It's being published shortly by a US company called Midnight Marquee. They have a scan of the cover (which frankly isn't a great one) on their website (http://www.midmar.com) . Although the specific details don't appear to have made it onto the cover, it's a compilation of reviews of films from 1978-1994, from Fulci's Zombie to Soavi's Dellamorte dellamore.

[Mandi Apple]

Although I have to say I haven't spotted the insinuated paedophilia- could you explain further? Indeed :)

*** MINOR SPOILERS ***

I picked up on it when I went looking to see what cuts had been made to the movie - apparently even the Red Edition I've got's been cut about a bit. It's involved in the relationship between Gnagi and Valentina: the insinuation is that Gnagi had been done before for having had inappropriate relationships with minors.

Of course, he then goes on to develop another inappropriate relationship with Valentina, who is, after all, just a schoolgirl...

*** MINOR SPOILERS END ***

Thanks for letting me know I'm not reading the movie wrongly: it confused me quite a bit on an emotional level - although I did enjoy it I didn't love it, so I remain bemused and somewhat unsold on it :)

[jim harper]

Indeed :)

*** MINOR SPOILERS ***

I picked up on it when I went looking to see what cuts had been made to the movie - apparently even the Red Edition I've got's been cut about a bit. It's involved in the relationship between Gnagi and Valentina: the insinuation is that Gnagi had been done before for having had inappropriate relationships with minors.

Of course, he then goes on to develop another inappropriate relationship with Valentina, who is, after all, just a schoolgirl...

*** MINOR SPOILERS END ***

Thanks for letting me know I'm not reading the movie wrongly: it confused me quite a bit on an emotional level - although I did enjoy it I didn't love it, so I remain bemused and somewhat unsold on it :)

I think I know what you're referring too, and I have to say, I didn't read it that way at all. I think it's possible to view those remarks at face value- Gnaghi can't talk to pretty girls. It doesn't necessarily imply child molestation, given that Gnaghi has the unusual habit of throwing up when he talks to a pretty girl; I think the references to past problems are simply related to this peculiarity.

[Mandi Apple]

*scratches head* well, I know absolutely nothing about what's purported to be cut from the movie, but from what I understood (I seem to recall reading it on IMDB) there was material that had been removed for this reason.

It was an explanation that made good sense to me when I read it, but naturally being a complete airhead when it comes to giallos I wouldn't set it in stone 8)

[Vertigo]

*scratches head* well, I know absolutely nothing about what's purported to be cut from the movie, but from what I understood (I seem to recall reading it on IMDB) there was material that had been removed for this reason.

It was an explanation that made good sense to me when I read it, but naturally being a complete airhead when it comes to giallos I wouldn't set it in stone 8)

I have to say, it's certainly the way I read the movie - after all, the mayor's daughter was always referred to in a child-like fashion so to make her the object of Gnaghi's obsession certainly leaves the door open for the implications of something quite unsavoury in his past 'relationships'. And Valentina, especially in her intro scene, is very much played that way so I think the implications were intended. And Francesco himself says "What were you doing with the Mayor's daughter anyway, she's only a child...."

[jim harper]

Well, I can see where you're coming from, although I definitely didn't read those scenes in the same way.

[Vertigo]

Well, I can see where you're coming from, although I definitely didn't read those scenes in the same way.

Of course. Most things can be read in any number of ways. We could be here all day discussing "Suspiria" in that respect.

I have to say though that when, on-screen they give character's age as 14 on her gravestone, the film-makers surely must've known they would be inviting such interpretations. After all, I don't think Fabiana Formica was anywhere near that age when she played Valentina so the option was surely there to 'bump' her character's age up a bit in an attempt to avoid this occurring if it was not intentional.

But as said before, things can be read in different ways by different people and that's all part of the fun.

Will definately be checking out the book Jim. Congratulations on the publication.

[jim harper]

Of course. Most things can be read in any number of ways. We could be here all day discussing "Suspiria" in that respect.

I have to say though that when, on-screen they give character's age as 14 on her gravestone, the film-makers surely must've known they would be inviting such interpretations. After all, I don't think Fabiana Formica was anywhere near that age when she played Valentina so the option was surely there to 'bump' her character's age up a bit in an attempt to avoid this occurring if it was not intentional.

But as said before, things can be read in different ways by different people and that's all part of the fun.

You're possibly right, it does suggest certain ideas. Perhaps it's significant that Gnaghi ends up in a bizarre comedic relationship with a severed (and animated) head, a relationship that is most definitely non-physical, as opposed to doing something more predatory or distateful.

Will definately be checking out the book Jim. Congratulations on the publication.

Thank you, that is most appreciated :)